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file Question Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it

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01 May 2017 04:59 #46810 by Bluebrain
Replied by Bluebrain on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
People should be aware of, that a CNC machine is not a plug&print Laser printer!
And needless to say, that a DIY kit requires even more knowledge and experience.

I assembled my 2/420 today.
Sure, it took me several hours, but I clearly followed the instructions, brought in some of my own ideas and did everything without any hassle.

Finally, only a blocking X axis struggled me.
Reason: I did not RTFM. :whistle:
The fine-tuning of the axle drives is described in the "first steps with the software" manual.
(release the screws, drive to end points, re-tight the screws)
This should have been mentioned in the main assembly instructions! Because, e.g. if you did not plan to use WinPC-NC, you would not look into this manual!

I also had to replace the spacer for the three drive belt ball-bearings. The one supplied blocked the ball-bearings.

Not really necessary, but it would have been great, if all parts were in separate bags with its item number on it.

I also did my first successful milling test today. :cheer:

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01 May 2017 06:41 - 01 May 2017 06:42 #46812 by Worldhusky
Replied by Worldhusky on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it

Bluebrain wrote: People should be aware of, that a CNC machine is not a plug&print Laser printer!
And needless to say, that a DIY kit requires even more knowledge and experience.




Well ..... that isn't what they sell to a CNC novice. This is what they sell and many customer like/need to believe that statement!


Screenshot Stepcraft Website: stepcraft.us/product/stepcraft-2420-desktop-cnc-system/
It's not only about tools it's also about skills! ;)

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Last edit: 01 May 2017 06:42 by Worldhusky.

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01 May 2017 10:09 #46814 by lpaelke
Replied by lpaelke on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Well, I didn't need any "special skills" to assemble my Stepcraft, my quite ordinary skills were good enough. :evil:
But since it's a machine for makers and not for consumers, that's fair enough for me.

Cheers,

Lutz

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01 May 2017 16:23 #46825 by Bluebrain
Replied by Bluebrain on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Okay, "No special skills or tools are required." can be a problem, as people might read it as "no skills at all". :lol:
But I think you should take this literally as "no special BUT STILL basic/average skills". ;)

A CNC machine is an (advanced) tool. And like every tool, it requires training and service.
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01 May 2017 20:20 - 01 May 2017 20:25 #46829 by Doug
Replied by Doug on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Stepcraft machines are not "acceptable for the price" Andreas. You have a biased perspective because you are German, they are German and you didn't have any significant problems with yours. They're worth about a third of what we're paying for them. Rory offered me £750 for my fully assembled 840/2 costing about £3,000 when I asked him to take it back in sheer frustration. Ukulele guy in Wales asked £750 for his outfit on the Facebook Stepcraft Crafters Club to move it on.

That's what's pissing people off. If I had paid £1,000 for mine I would have cheerfully tolerated all the assembly and "mechanical tuning" scheiss and design flaws.

Doug
Stepcraft 2/840, StoneyCNC industrial HF spindle, 4th axis, TurboCAD 2016 Professional 64 bit, MeshCAM, GWizard feeds & speeds calculator, UCCNC
Hobby use: guitar building (luthiery), dsgb.net
Last edit: 01 May 2017 20:25 by Doug.

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01 May 2017 22:37 #46830 by MMorao
Replied by MMorao on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Hi Andreas,

Thank you very much for your reply, I do not agree with quite a number of your arguments and vice-versa, but this is no boxing match so we can happily refrain from trading punches. Anyway P can pick a few cherries.

You say that you'd be willing to pay a higher price, so why didn't you buy the pre-assembled machine?


Because I have experience in assembling equipment, but was surprised at the amount of trouble.

Mentioning cars .. did you ever buy a car kit and assembled the car yourself? And if the car does not run, do you call the manufacturer or the dealer? Well ... vendors being in the first row is normal, isn't it? At least in germany we bring our broken cars back to the shop.
Same for broken TV or a broken washing machine.


That was why I mentioned the kind of assistance I got from my vendor. As for the broken TV or washing machine, yes, the same thing, but if any of it came down, went back to the vendor (under warranty terms), came back, went back to the vendor repeatedly then it's natural you take a dim view of the brand.

About quality control: ... the customer do the Q.C. and ...


But, sir, here QC meant first of all diagnosis of the actual defect, which was not necessarily simple but the experience of the vendor helped hin recognize symptoms.

Why am I dedicated? Because
2. ... but acceptable for the price
4. I learned a lot on this journey


I accepted the price when I bought it, I'm not discussing that. And yes, I gained a great understanding of the workings of the machine which of course made my task much easier concerning maintenance and tuning.

Summing up, the machine is up and running and as you must have read I am am doing some customizing on top to improve the 4th axis capabilities. It's a great pity the beginnings were marred by these unfortunate and mostly avoidable circumstances.
Clockwork Orange is a S600 with 4th axis, Kress 1050. Software is UCCNC, DeskProto, Rhino, DraftSight. Also a Silhouette Cameo for vinyl, plastic card, etc.

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01 May 2017 23:47 #46831 by MMorao
Replied by MMorao on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it

Bluebrain wrote: People should be aware of, that a CNC machine is not a plug&print Laser printer!


Oh puhlease! A ballistic missile may occasionally explode on launch especially if blessed by being born in North Korea, but a supposedly mass product? Along life I bought several purely mechanical SLRs, and later on DSLRs. Each one definitely much more complex than this and ready to go straight off the box, so please don't say that.

I am experienced enough not to try and fit an M6 bolt through a M5 nut, and I expect the same from Stepcraft. What I also expect is to receive in my part kit for instance a X-axis wormgear of the specified length, not a wrong one causing jamming of said X-axis. Etc, etc, etc.
Clockwork Orange is a S600 with 4th axis, Kress 1050. Software is UCCNC, DeskProto, Rhino, DraftSight. Also a Silhouette Cameo for vinyl, plastic card, etc.

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02 May 2017 16:44 #46839 by Owen S
Replied by Owen S on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
The bit that got me was that Stepcraft make CNC machines. That is the core of the work.

Now I can forgive for example a great chef not having the skills to make a good website, or a brick layer not being able to write software. But SC make CNC machines using CNC machines. That's it, nothing else. But the whole setup is a tolerance slop-fest, with good alignment and calibration "in there somewhere". I was expecting precision parts, with location pins, and the bolts "just hold it together".

I recall my rifle instructor mentioning a German rifle company. At international competitions they would send their service van. A gunsmith would take your rifle to bits in front of you and replace anything worn or broken, no matter the age of the gun. The charge? Nothing, because to a German engineering company their reputation is everything...

Owen S.

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03 May 2017 10:05 #46846 by orenhag
Replied by orenhag on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Lets face it. This machine is over 5 years old. Its outdated and does not compete with the current developments. Stepcraft does EVERYTHING they can in order to sell these machines and nothing in order to make them work. The amount of resources this company spend on marketing is way ahead the support and r&d they do.

Bottom line - If making a Stepcraft work takes so much of that "magic touch" and so much fiddling, why would a normal person choose SC over a Chinese CNC with updated design (ballbearings etc..)?

Next time im going Chinese. No more German "mambo jambo".

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03 May 2017 11:11 #46847 by Owen S
Replied by Owen S on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it

orenhag wrote: ...Stepcraft does EVERYTHING they can in order to sell these machines and nothing in order to make them work. The amount of resources this company spend on marketing is way ahead the support and r&d they do...


Yeah. I get the impression they ordered way too many parts and are now just trying to sell off kits and then perhaps shut down. This may be wrong. All it would take is for them to come onto the forum once in a while...

Owen S.

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04 May 2017 09:49 #46864 by orenhag
Replied by orenhag on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
I think you are right. It really seems they are trying to get rid of their stock and call it quit. I dont think they are planing a Stepcraft 3.

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04 May 2017 11:02 - 04 May 2017 12:27 #46871 by Anke
Replied by Anke on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Dear Doug, Orenhag, MMoreo, Owen and dear all other users of this forum,

up to today, we have sold thousands of machines worldwide. Only a small amount of customers have had problems to get their machines up and running due to reasons like

- misunderstanding of the building manual
- production errors
- etc.

Our goal is always to support and help every customer so that he can successfully operate his machine and accessories.

Of course, we also offer this service to each of you. Sometimes we even put our German and US capacities together in order to support the customer best. One of you guys can confirm this.

Please take into consideration that this forum was opened as an additional service for you, our customers and any person interested in our products in order to provide a platform for discussing, sharing as well as for showing and developing individual solutions based on each users personal needs and projects. It is not an additional support platform as some users may think. We already mentioned this quite a few times.

Due to the fact that each customer is different, we prefer and offer individual support via e-mail, telephone and sometimes also via Skype. But in order to successfully solve a problem, we need the help of our customers. If a customer does not answer our questions, we cannot figure out a solution. Again, one of you guys can confirm this.

This forum is openminded for suggestions, ammendments, criticism, pictures of your works as well as for compliments, but we do not accept this mode of writing with harmful statements based on personal interpretations, assumptions and superficial knowledge.

We kindly ask you to refrain from this in future and continue this thread in a constructive spirit.

Thank you.

STEPCRAFT GmbH & Co. KG
Last edit: 04 May 2017 12:27 by Anke.
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05 May 2017 09:55 #46910 by hb9dod
Replied by hb9dod on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Gentlemen

Reading all this negativ feedback I feel I had to write a short comment.

I am an electronic guy, a hamradio operator for 40 years with little mechanical experience. After reading about CNC, 3DPrint and so on I decided last year to buy a 420/2

I read the manual very carefully and had absolutely no items to get the machine running. It fitted.

I borrowed a copy Mach3 from a friend and had it up and running in a couple of days.

Of course it had a learning curve, of course it takes time. But dont blame a company because you are frustrated and not capable of putting the stuff together.

I had good support from my swiss Vendor and Rory in England as well as Stepcraft Germany.

BUT... Think before you buy.. It is not a Plug and Play machine nor is a 3DPrinter when you built it as a kit nor are radios in kitform..

Happy CNC-ing

Tom
HB9DOD
KL5X

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05 May 2017 12:11 #46915 by DocBrown
Replied by DocBrown on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Hi Tom,

nice to know that here´s another ham on this frequency :)

More or less same same experience like you started as an electrician and more than 40 years doing model-hobby from railroad to helicopter. So only 2 little problems when assembling my 2/420 which I could fix myself and with little help from Stepcraft.

Current project...you should know what I´m planning to assemble... hi :woohoo:



73 de Hartmut / DK5LH
Viele Grüße

Hartmut
V2/420 China 800W wassergekühlt
UCCNC & ARDUINO ESTLCAM Controller
ESTLCAM & QCAD
DK5LH/G11

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06 May 2017 22:46 - 06 May 2017 22:48 #46939 by Doug
Replied by Doug on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it

Anke wrote: this forum... is not an additional support platform as some users may think.

Thanks for clarifying that Anke. I can get on with showing off what my machine can do and stop posting solutions to setup issues and answering cris de coeur from new users in difficulties. :cheer: Or not bother posting here at all and just support the various other forums I'm already posting my guitar build work on.

Doug
Stepcraft 2/840, StoneyCNC industrial HF spindle, 4th axis, TurboCAD 2016 Professional 64 bit, MeshCAM, GWizard feeds & speeds calculator, UCCNC
Hobby use: guitar building (luthiery), dsgb.net
Last edit: 06 May 2017 22:48 by Doug.

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06 May 2017 23:21 #46940 by MagIO2
Replied by MagIO2 on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
@doug
Is this a serious post or sarcasm?

Anke just wanted to say that it's not an support channel for Stepcraft - as I already mentioned above. Of course users helping users is welcome, so feel free to be helpful. Anyway .. all possibilities you listed are acceptable either, as they don't include blaming ... your choice.
SC 420 mit DIY parallel + Proxxon mit Mod + HF500 + SprintLayout + LibreCAD/QCAD + FreeCAD +WinPC starter/USB->EstlCAM + EstlCAM LPTAdapter + EstlCAM Handrad + DIY Vakuumtisch

Gruß, Andreas
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07 May 2017 12:04 #46947 by MMorao
Replied by MMorao on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
Thank you very much Anke, now we have an official clarification from the firm. The point you address is not obvious, and I'd suggest a post, pinned and locked, stating Stepcraft position regarding this forum so there will be no doubts for new users. I believe some things I wrote were out of place because this position was not clear to me.

As I wrote a week ago...

Summing up, the machine is up and running and as you must have read I am am doing some customizing on top to improve the 4th axis capabilities. It's a great pity the beginnings were marred by these unfortunate and mostly avoidable circumstances.

.... this goes to show that my attitude is not negative. If I had had a smooth experience as users like h9dod had then my opinion would not have been tainted.
Clockwork Orange is a S600 with 4th axis, Kress 1050. Software is UCCNC, DeskProto, Rhino, DraftSight. Also a Silhouette Cameo for vinyl, plastic card, etc.
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09 May 2017 15:02 - 09 May 2017 15:26 #47019 by claudiug
Replied by claudiug on topic Stepcraft is an "unbaked product" and i hate it
#Deleted content due to insulting comments#
Last edit: 09 May 2017 15:26 by Anke.

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